Trevor Mallard interview: Lessons from Ireland amid a changing world order
Sir Trevor Mallard - who broke his femur in a bike crash in Ireland - spills the beans on his diplomatic career before being dramatically recalled by Winston Peters. Photo / Mark Mitchell
Former Speaker Sir Trevor Mallard is surprisingly forgiving about being brought home early by Foreign Minister Winston Peters after serving as ambassador to Ireland for almost three years.
And Mallard said that given that some former politicians turned diplomats had not covered themselves in glory (he won’t say who), the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) was right to be wary of his initial appointment.
“If they weren’t nervous, they should have been,” he said in an interview with the Herald at his Wainuiomata home.
He said that because there were no “irritations” in the relationship between New Zealand and Ireland, it was always just positive interactions.
“I loved the job.”
Was he good at it?
“I think most people there thought I was good at the job.”
Mallard said the advantage of having been a politician was that he had seen what made an effective representative of a country and what didn’t.
“I think the effective ones were the ones who could work the system to get access quickly ... often people wanted to make points or to work out why New Zealand was doing things, and my role was obviously in reverse.”
Mallard was appointed by the former Labour Government and began his three-year posting at the start of 2023; the last year it held office.
He was knighted in the 2024 New Year’s Honours, as is customary for former Speakers, although he didn’t use the title as a diplomat.
In August last year, just after his term had been extended by a few months to April 2026, Peters announced his recall and that his replacement would be Angela Hassan-Sharp.
Mallard returned at the end of November, about four months earlier than planned.
Asked if he thought Peters’ recall was petty, Mallard was diplomatic. He said he had been a bit surprised, given that his term had just been extended.
“I think it’s absolutely the right of a minister to recall someone,” he said.
But he said the record would show that he wasn’t formally recalled. He had been an MFAT employee for more than three years when he returned.
Peters opened the Dublin embassy in 2018 when he was Foreign Affairs Minister in a Labour-led Government. He regained the portfolio in 2023 in a National-led Government, but he did not visit Dublin at all in 2024 or 2025 – nor did any Government minister.
Again, Mallard put a positive spin on it.
“There’s only five million people in Ireland, so it’s not like it’s going to be the central railway station for people coming through,” he said. “It’s not Brussels or London.”
Mallard had four former Prime Ministers visit, Helen Clark and Dame Jacinda Ardern in a private capacity, Chris Hipkins on an official trip last year as Leader of the Opposition, and former National Prime Minister Jim Bolger.
Bolger and his wife Joan Bolger were on a private visit to relatives in Wexford, he said.
“I acted on a couple of occasions as Jim’s driver to get him places.”
He also assisted with a visit to Dublin by former All Blacks captain Sean Fitzpatrick. He was part of a documentary about the Irish-born former All Blacks captain Dave Gallaher, who was born in Ramelton, County Donegal, and died in 1917 fighting in Passchendaele.
Incoming governments almost always honour the appointments of previous governments, the previous exception being when Sir Robert Muldoon recalled former Labour Deputy Prime Minister Hugh Watt from London and replaced him with Sir Douglas Carter.
Mallard’s appointment was made during the term that Peters was out of Parliament.
During that time, Peters was among high-profile ex-politicians who were trespassed from Parliament grounds for two years by Mallard for having visited the unlawful occupation of Parliament earlier in 2022.
The trespass orders were withdrawn, but Peters took it to court anyway and had it declared unreasonable and irrational by Justice Cheryl Gwyn in the High Court.
Peters remained bitter about Mallard but he left him in Dublin for almost three years until he announced his replacement a few months early.
“The carnival is over,” Peters told reporters.
Mallard saw his role as a liaison person, making and improving connections for Government, business and individuals and helping their interactions with Ireland.
He visited all 26 counties.
“I think it’s only by getting out and about within Dublin and around the country that you can make those connections because they’re often very well hidden away.”
For example, he had no briefing notes on any relationship between Fonterra and the University of Cork.
“It was only visiting the University of Cork, I discovered that Fonterra has a massive multi-million-dollar-a-year research contract with the University of Cork.”
He said he got to know Irish Taoiseach Micheál Martin when Martin was foreign minister. New Zealand’s sale of two decommissioned inshore patrol vessels (the HMNZS Rotoiti and the HMNZS Pukaki) to Ireland led to quite a bit of contact with him.
One of the best times to make contact with Irish MPs, or TDs as they are called (Teachta Dála) was on a Wednesday at the Oireachtas from 5pm because that was the only time in the week they voted.
Once you had got through security, there was a very good opportunity for access to TDs and to have a meal or drink with them or a formal meeting.
“I actually invested a bit of Whittaker’s chocolate with the security guards to help every now and again,” Mallard said.
The Speaker, known as the Ceann Comhairle of the Oireachtas, would sometimes give Mallard his dining room to meet with groups of TDs.
After one election, there were about 70 new TDs out of 160.
“We worked quite hard to work out who ... are likely to stick around and make a difference.
“So it was constant relationship-building stuff.”
He also became a touch judge for the parliamentary rugby team, and when France, Scotland or England came to Dublin for a Six Nations game, they would have a parliamentary game of rugby.
Mallard had two highlights as ambassador. The first was helping to get the New Zealand-European Union free trade agreement passed through the European Parliament.
In particular, he mentioned his work with Grace O’Sullivan, an Irish former Green Member of the European Parliament, who had been a crew member on the Rainbow Warrior when it was blown up by French operatives in 1985 when it was berthed in Auckland (she wasn’t on the ship that night, though).
“She had a big love for New Zealand,” Mallard said, “and she did a lot of work for us.”
It had been the first time that the Greens in the European Parliament had ever supported a free trade agreement (FTA).
“They have a loose whipping system. We only got three-quarters of them, but it was the first time that they’ve effectively made a caucus decision to support something [like that].”
Mallard’s other highlight was helping to establish the waiata group Te Waka Aumihi in Dublin. It supported events, such as Waitangi Day, Anzac Day and Matariki, and New Zealand-related business events, including when the FTA came into force, “which gives us a bit of class, a bit of difference,” said Mallard.
“There’s a whole pile of occasions now that have a real New Zealand flavour to them.”
It had also been invited to perform in the Wexford Opera House in 2024 as part of an international showcase concert.
Mallard points to three things that New Zealand could learn from Ireland.
The first was its long-term policy setting, such as infrastructure planning, which was debated sometimes 15 years in advance.
“Once there’s a commitment to doing it, that’s not gonna be changed,” he said.
He talked about the Government being actively involved in attracting foreign investment, Ireland’s approval process for foreign direct investment (FDI), and low taxes to attract FDI (12.5% for active business income, 15% for multinationals with annual revenue over 750 million euros ($1.479m), and 25% for passive income such as from investments and rents).
He cited the example of a manufacturing plant in Kinsale, County Cork, that last year exported more than $60 billion of ingredients to the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical company in the United States – it manufactures the active ingredients in the weight-loss/diabetes drugs Zepound and Mounjaro.
Mallard recalled witnessing a conversation that an Irish minister had with an elderly woman who lived not far from a town with a manufacturing factory.
“I witnessed a relatively little old lady coming up to the then Minister of Enterprise and saying, ‘You got this factory for the town down the road from us, and now their wages are higher.
“There’s lots of jobs, and even the cafes are paid much more ... can you get one for us?’”
The third factor that made a difference for Ireland was its level of education, said Mallard.
“They have a very good primary and secondary education system. They have the highest proportion of graduates in Europe, and it’s rapidly growing.”
Mallard, 71, is living back in Wainuiomata with his wife, writer Jane Clifton, and is happy not to be making plans, other than getting himself fit again.
He broke his femur in a cycling accident in Ireland and is still not back to cycling.
“I want to get myself back into decent physical shape, and part of that will be walking the dog [Violet] and working the garden.
“I’m really enjoying spending time with my grandchildren, and I have no urge whatsoever to ever do fulltime employment again.”